Justified or not, women can tend to find men frustratingly lazy/self-serving/myopic/unable to plan the kids’ birthday party. And they can tend to voice such frustration often.

Image via Sincerely Kinsey
Image via Sincerely Kinsey

I have a friend who shrugs her shoulders and says, regularly, “Look, women are just the more capable half of the race”.

I’ve always felt uncomfortable around this kind of talk. I truly don’t know what to make about where we – the two halves of the race – sit right now. We’re confused about roles. Women feel overworked and underpaid, lumped with too much responsibility. Men feel under-appreciated, misunderstood and emasculated.

But, I don’t reckon bitching about it is good. Moaning and bitching doesn’t feel like the evolved and constructive way to go about shifting things for the better. If anything it’s always seemed resigned and passive and unhelpful. And not kind.

I echo the thoughts of Irin Carmon in this op-ed on What Women Really Think of Men in The New York Times, responding to the “men are useless” cry:

“As a feminist, I disagree. It does women, and society, no favors to grouse about female superiority as a way to let men off the hook. When society writes off men as irredeemable, we all lose.”

There’s another (essentialist) argument to be made here. Anyone mindfully engaged in pondering contemporary gender relations (ie feminists) and who might think their critical thinking is reasonably advanced has a responsibility to carry the debate to higher territory.

Carmon writes, “Feminists’ critique of male power has long been caricatured as hatred of men. But it is feminists whose fight is motivated by the belief that men can be better.”

I agree. 

I watch some of my girlfriends roll their eyes, hmph righteously and go pick up their partners’ socks (or whatever) when they’re frustrated with the unequal division of labour and consciousness. I get it. And I’m not entirely sure – to be brutally honest – about what is the best way to navigate such a common impasse (only lightly represented by the example of the socks).

But I think we all need to try harder. All of us.

Carmon cites Obama who identifies as a feminist who recently said, “I can look back now and see that, while I helped out, it was usually on my schedule and on my terms. The burden disproportionately and unfairly fell on Michelle.” Carmon suggests men taking responsibility, even retrospectively, is what it’s going to take for us to believe another world is possible, one in which we don’t romanticise female superiority to let men off the hook.

I imagine I’ve opened a can of worms here. Feel free to vent below.

Have your say, leave a comment.

  • Emma

    I love this conversation Sarah. I have read a few books, namely, The Queen’s Code by Alison Armstrong and there’s another book referenced in the Queen’s Code called The Female Brain which shows how biologically different we are – they literally don’t see the socks on the floor. I think every woman should read the Queen’s Code. It’s saved me a lot of rolling eyes, humphing and hurt and has given me a beautiful relationship not just with my partner but improved my relationships with all men and masculinity.

    • Emma

      Just to add, I think we do have to rise above ‘females being the better/more capable half of the species’ type of feminism. That is not getting us what we want as women.

  • TJ

    OMG. So good. I totally agree with this, it feels like you voiced a feeling I hadn’t articulated yet. It’s such a popular thing nowadays on TV, social media, and in real life to just totally mock men for being useless and clueless, it’s so wrong. Such a fan of your writing, thank you Sarah, always insightful! x

  • Samantha Jane Nugent

    It all comes down to feeling respected on both sides, whatever our roles, we have to be proud of what roles we take, instead of moaning about them ourselves and then the activities we do won’t be gender based so much, when they are given value. I hope that makes sense.

  • Not a can of worms at all (surely!); I’m not sure anyone could disagree with this logic… I can’t see any benefit to deciding that men are useless. I do think there is a deeper layer around how boys and men are taught to regard women that influences the kinds of roles men and women then tend to take on. I’m acutely aware of it as a mother to boys – I often talk to them about the ‘silly ideas’ that are perpetuated around gender (e.g. Pink is for girls), but I can already see them creeping in, in the things that others say: “you’re going to get beaten by a girl”, “boys don’t cry”, “rainbow mermaid Barbie dolls are a girls’ toy” (my 5 yr old saved his money up for one!). As part of expecting that men take more responsibility, is also the responsibility to learn to think critically about and question these sorts of social constructions and norms, including the ones which tell them what it means to be a man.

    • Seb

      Does the father still play a role in your sons’ lives?

      • Why do you ask?

        • Seb

          Because, and I truly mean no offence here, I don’t think it’s women’s jobs to teach boys how to be good men. Nor do I even believe mothers are capable of such a thing.
          When single mothers raise their fatherless sons and try to teach them to be “good men”, they usually bring them up to be avid, militant feminists. They would only teach them (or at least try to, because statistics prove said mothers rarely succeed) to “respect” women and how to treat them well. They wouldn’t really teach boys emotional control, personal responsibility and agency, discipline, restraint, confidence, etc.

          Mothers, and especially single mothers, have a ridiculously hard job, so I’m not blaming them… but the fact is, children and especially boys coming from fatherless households are MUCH more likely to resort to crime, drugs, drop out of school, living in poverty, being abuse towards others, etc.
          Kids, and especially young boys NEED their fathers. Or at the very least, they need a good male role-model. As much as I’m sure you love your sons and are a fantastic mother, they still need a father in their lives.

          So when you say you are teaching your sons what it means to be men, I take that with a tiny grain of salt. If the father is in any way still present, and you’re both teaching them how to behave, then I don’t see the problem. That’s why I asked. Because, if you want your boys to be good men, then you must realize they need a man in their lives.

          It makes no more sense for a woman to teach boys about masculinity, than it is for masculine man to teach girls what it means to be feminine. Honestly, you have no idea. Just like men have no idea in the reverse example.

          I hope you don’t take this personally. I’m just using facts and general realities about young (male) kids and the effect of fatherlessness has on their upbringing.

          • Monika Kuncová

            And often fathers learn their sons well known “boys don’t cry” and other toxic masculine ideas. So they are unable to express emotions later in life. They should have the same options to express as women, so no more don’t cry bullshit.

          • Seb

            Thank you for proving that women categorically do not understand masculinity, nor are they qualified in the slightest to teach kids, especially boys, about it. I’m sorry for being blunt, but I prey that you never raise sons (should you have any) on your own, and teach them such self-destructive ideas.

            The idea of “toxic masculinity” is but a pitiful and shameful attempt to smear the idea of masculinity, by confusing masculine competence with tyranny, or oppression (in this case, suppression of supposed feelings). It’s part of the underlying idea that our culture is a corrupt, tyrannical patriarchy, that was run by men, for the advantage of other men. Which is a very pathological way of looking at the world. The only people who think that way are women, who know and understand nothing about men and masculinity, and militant feminist white knight men, lacking any shred of self-respect and awareness (in other words, men who refuse to accept responsibility).
            The idea that masculinity in its essence is somehow “toxic” is an absolutely dreadful and highly destructive idea.
            Explain to me how you think it’s productive to teach boys how to be good men, while you say their very essence and being as men, aka masculinity, is toxic. How the fuck do you think this is productive? Absolutely shameful. You are yet another woman shaming men for being men. I find this disgusting.

            To your point. The idea that “fathers teach their sons that boys don’t cry”, is such a female and factually wrong perspective on this matter.
            First of all, I’ve NEVER heard a man say that “boys don’t cry”. In fact, I’ve only ever been judged by women for showing too much emotion. Have you never been to a funeral? Have you never seen men cry when they lost their loved ones? Do you honestly think for one second that men are just sitting there, demanding that other men cannot cry because they’re men? Come on…
            I’ve never been told by anyone in my entire life that “boys are not allowed to cry”. Stop reaching.

            This also goes to prove how women like you treat boys like defective girls (and prove your convictions of female superiority in the process). News flash, men do not deal with problems the same way that you do. I don’t cry that often, because crying is not a productive thing to do. It doesn’t solve anything, unless you’re a woman. Because, as a girl, you are conditioned that crying leads to help (not an opinion, this is a basic psychological fact). Men aren’t told or taught to “suppress” their emotions. They’re told to CONTROL their emotions. This is something women, for some reason, confuse with suppression. I’ve never understood why.

            And again, the idea that boys are emotionally identical to girls is laughable. Just because boys cry less often than girls in similar situations, does not prove boys are “suppressing” their emotions. It proves they handle them differently.

            Women do not know this at all… but men regularly talk about their genuine problems amongst each other. The goal is not to “cry like a girl” and expect the problem to simply go away. The goal is always, how can we solve this problem? Men are more solution-oriented, whereas women seem to thrive by getting things off their chest. Both work for the respective genders. But don’t sit there and pretend that the feminine approach is somehow superior to the male approach. And don’t you dare insinuate that the masculine one is “toxic”. That’s just sick.

            I think your arrogance as a women, thinking you have men all figured out and know what’s best for them (better than men, and fathers) is “toxic femininity” and should be destroyed. See how that works?

          • Monika Kuncová

            Hmmm. I have son and I am trying to teach him to be empathic and don’t use physical aggression. I thing there are fathers who teach boys to be agressive and I hate that. Aggression is a primitive animalistic way how to solve problems. I think that many men are missing empathy and that is the reason why they can do the worst imaginable crimes possible(murders, rapes, torture etc.). Missing empathy and high aggresivity is what I consider toxic.

          • Seb

            Again, that’s simply not the case, and a typically female perspective on masculine behavior.
            Aggression can be a good thing, if channeled correctly. Being aggressive in the workplace, for example, leads to higher competition, which in turn means the meritocratic free market will pick the best person for the job. People who are more aggressive in their determination, are more likely to succeed. This is a good thing.
            Aggression is only bad when it comes from a place of frustration, which is not at all what responsible men teach their sons, or say it’s okay. This is actually, the opposite of masculinity, because someone acting on frustrated impulses, lacks emotional control, which is not very masculine.
            You think it’s bad that fathers teach boys to be aggressive, but look at the facts… Men are, on average, not drastically more aggressive than women. According to psychological studies, if you take two average people, one male, one female, and bet that the woman is more aggressive, you will be right 40% of the time. There is a strong biological factor as to why men are still 60% (testosterone obviously), but it’s not as big as feminist ideologues would have us believe.
            The problem is, the 100th percentile in highest aggression is 95% male, which is why men fill up the prisons.
            Here’s the interesting part… According to you, this is because fathers teach boys to be aggressive, perhaps physical. But the fact of the matter is, the OVERWHELMING majority of said male prisoners come from FATHERLESS homes. These male criminals are raised by single mothers.
            I am not blaming single mothers. But the fact is, that kids, and especially boys, cannot thrive without a father, or a father figure.
            85% of youths in prison come from fatherless homes.
            Let met repeat that…. EIGHTY-FIVE percent of youths in prison, come from fatherless homes.
            75% of all patients in drug abuse programs are from fatherless homes.
            85% of children showing behavioral disorders, come from fatherless homes.
            90% of all runaway and homeless kids, come from fatherless homes.
            71% of high school drop outs, come from fatherless homes.
            63% of youth suicides are from fatherless homes.

            So you see, you can blame the presence of men and masculinity all you want for boys being “more aggressive”… but at the end of the day, and as a matter of fact, it’s precisely the ABSENCE of fathers and their guidance which leads to kids being precisely what you fear they might become: highly aggressive, and worst cases, criminals.

            In conclusion? Kids, and again, especially boys, NEED their fathers. You cannot hope to raise a boy, and teach them that their very being is toxic, and expect them to be good men when they grow up. You are teaching your son that he is born in original sin. I don’t know if you have a daughter, but imagine the father taught her that femininity is toxic and he gets to say how she would behave. I imagine you wouldn’t like that one bit. Why is it okay, when you do it?

            “I think that many men are missing empathy and that is the reason why they can do the worst imaginable crimes possible(murders, rapes, torture etc.). Missing empathy and high aggresivity is what I consider toxic”
            And as a pointed out… it’s not female guidance these children seek. It is male guidance. Not an opinion. Plain, stone cold facts.

            Obviously teaching your kids to be empathetic is nothing but a good thing… but there are some things only, or especially fathers, can teach kids. And you’re taking that away from your son if he doesn’t have a good male role model in his life.

          • BrettOMC

            Seb, you are absolutely right. One of the biggest problems young boys are having is some women trying to teach them to be girls. Boys and girls are different and need different things. If they are taught to be more empathetic and more like girls, it’s denying them the opportunity to learn to become good, well rounded men.

            I’m sure Monika has good intention but she doesn’t understand boys or men. Monika, at the risk of “mansplaining”, we don’t live in a Utopian society. Sometime aggression is warranted. Sometimes it saves lives, sometimes is save nations. The key here is to teach boys how to be responsible and manage their aggression when is arises. Having said that, I’m sure you would agree there are plenty of women that should learn to manage their aggression.

            If a boy is taught to be like a girl they will spend their lives believing their is something wrong with them. That is one of the worst things you can do to them and the rest of society.

          • Seb

            “If a boy is taught to be like a girl they will spend their lives believing their is something wrong with them. ”
            Yes.. that is why I’m worried about Monika’s son. Seems to me she has almost nothing but contempt for men and masculinity. That’s why she considers masculinity “toxic” (despite the statistics proving otherwise) and is teaching her son to be more like a girl.
            It’s original sin, in feminist form.
            I desperately hope the father still plays a role in the life of her son. And I hope said father is not a deadbeat dad, but a responsible one.
            If it’s one thing I hate (almost) more than women excluding men from seeing their kids… it’s fathers who want nothing to do with their kids and do their best to avoid them. That’s completely irresponsible.

          • Monika Kuncová

            The problem I have with men is derived from statistics. Why are there so many rapers, serial killers etc. Men are more inclined to physically aggressive behavior than women. You can’t deny that. And it is very very bad property. This is the reason why I want my son to be empathetic and with low aggression level. But I am afraid that whatever I will do, he will accept stereotypes from other men, because he will need to be part of men social circle. And you can’t deny that being abusive is bad and men can be inconceivably physical cruel to each other. I have seen it, they can fight like apes with blood everywhere if they are angry at each other. I can’t understand it, it is so animalistic. If I would had a daughter I would not be so afraid about her being a decent human.

          • Seb

            But, as I have already pointed out, statistics prove that male guidance is precisely what PREVENTS boys from becoming criminals. You’re not basing your view of masculinity on reason, statistics or facts. Rather, you’re basing it on feminist fear-mongering.

            “Why are there so many rapers, serial killers etc.”
            In our Western, secular world? There aren’t. That’s just a lie. Rape and murder are at an all time low. It almost never happens, which is proved by credible statistics.

            “Men are more inclined to physically aggressive behavior than women. You can’t deny that.”
            I can, because it’s not really true. Or at least, not to the extent that you’re implying.
            On average, men aren’t drastically more aggressive than women. There’s barely any difference. In actual fact, in relationships, women are FAR more aggressive than men (men are more destructive though, that’s why when they attack, they do far more lasting damage). In nonreciprocally violent relationships, women are the perpetrators in more than 70% of the cases.
            Why do you think lesbian relationships are the most violent relationships of them all? Statistically, it goes like this:
            Lesbians > Straight > Gays.
            What’s the common factor here? Women.
            This is in large part because women feel entitled to hit a man. Whereas men, even those who are abusive, know deep down, that it is wrong to hit someone, especially a woman. Women do NOT have this restraint towards men.
            As a whole, men make up around half of all domestic violence victims.

            Same is true for rape, actually. If you take into account the fact that the legal definition for rape doesn’t include male victims. Instead, this is defined as “forced penetration”. If you look at those numbers, men are around 40% of rape victims (by female rapist) according to the NIPSVS.

            That being said, yes. The top 100th percentile of most aggressive people, are 95% male. And as I already proved with actual statistics, the ONE thing those people have in common is that they grew up without a father. So you cannot blame masculinity. Instead, blame testosterone and stupidity. Because without male guidance and proper masculinity, testosterone may lead to more aggressive behavior.
            The very fact that men are biologically much more predisposed to aggression, yet don’t commit aggression that much more than women (on average), is literal proof that men are taught restraint and women aren’t.

            You’re generalizing men and pretending that the extremes represent the whole. If that is true, I am allowed to say men are smarter than women. Why? Well, in the top 0.1% in mechanical/ spatial/ mathematical reasoning, men outnumber women 236:1.
            The upper tiers of the IQ are almost exclusively dominated by men. Because spatial and mathematical insights are more prevalent amongst men.
            Something tells me you wouldn’t like hearing a statement like “men are smarter, because the top 1% of smartest people, are all men”.
            Which is actually a true, factual statement. But I would also be ignoring the fact that ON AVERAGE, men and women mostly have the same IQ (Men score higher by 2-3 points. Nothing of significance).
            The same is true for aggression. On average, there isn’t much difference. The extremes however, men are indeed more aggressive. But that doesn’t give you the right to generalize, especially when you get to WHY these men are so aggressive in the first place.

            “But I am afraid that whatever I will do, he will accept stereotypes from other men, because he will need to be part of men social circle.”
            I hope you realize your suppression of his inherent masculinity, and your refusal to let him be what he is: a man, is eventually going to effect him negatively? I literally just proved with statistics, that “”””male stereotypes”””” are THE reason, why men DON’T commit crime. Why they DON’T fuck up their lives. Why they DON’T do drugs. Why they DON’T drop out of school.
            Those are all directly caused, or at least in strong correlation with, masculinity and male guidance.
            So I’m saying: your fear for what your son may grow up to be, is completely and utterly unfounded. It’s based on NOTHING. It’s not true. You’re making this up, because you can’t grasp masculinity. And I’m not asking you to… But it would best serve your son to not shame him for what he is, which is kind of what you’re doing. Your fear is actually, the only thing that may affect him negatively anyways.

            “And you can’t deny that being abusive is bad”
            And women can be just as abusive as men.

            “and men can be inconceivably physical cruel to each other.”
            Mehh… To other men, perhaps. Not to women. You’re still exaggerating. Most men have never been in a true fight.

            “I have seen it”
            And now think of all the men you’ve never seen fighting and compare that to the amount you’ve seen fighting. Then you’ll understand that you’re grossly generalizing a small extreme.

            “I can’t understand it, it is so animalistic.”
            Most fights between men are not that serious anyways. And the problem is usually resolved afterwards anyways. With women, you guys whine about a girl wearing the same clothes, and you’ll remember that ten years later and still hate her for it.
            I’d actually prefer a good fight, and then forgive and forget.

            “If I would had a daughter I would not be so afraid about her being a decent human.”
            After such a obscenely sexist statement, I can only hope the father still plays an important role in your son’s life.
            I honestly cannot help you if you see men as sub-human trash, only capable of tyranny and destruction.
            Your contempt for men has SURELY influenced your son. And trust me, one day, he’ll either hate you for it, or he’ll become so frustrated, and you won’t know what to do with him. And I prey when, not if, that day comes, you have a strict man / father figure to keep your son in line. Because trust me, you won’t be able to control him.
            This is the universal truth about single mothers. All of my guy friends who grew up without a father, were/ are like that.

          • Kittie Mew Meow

            Also, to Seb and the fellas saying these things come down to no male role models. I’d like to add that perhaps there are many reasons to why single mothers seem to have children/boys that have higher incarceration rates, and another major factor, or a differing opinion would definitely be poverty as the single mother is holding down three job to keep food on the table and a roof over their heads; the mother in turn also neglects emotional growth (not by choice!!). So perhaps, it isn’t as simple as saying no male guidance- though that can also contribute. Life is messy and complex- no one reason drives one rhyme.

          • Seb

            Children living in poverty, but with 2 parents, are still much less likely to commit crime, etc. But sure, there’s a correlation.

          • Gary Ridgway

            Evil women “mothers” creaye male serial killers and rapists.

          • BrettOMC

            Monika, I really don’t mean to be disrespectful but your views are the real toxicity here. Please give you son a chance to grow without that kind of negative thinking. I understand you have a point of view that seems correct but I think in your heart you know it’s not right.

            Maybe something happened to you or maybe you’ve just bought into an idea without having a different perspective to challenge it but hating men is not the answer. There are just as many toxic and dangerous women as there are men. And there are also millions of good and descent men in world. Give your son a chance at a good life. What you are doing now is going to guarantee that he will be unhappy.

          • Seb

            “If I would had a daughter I would not be so afraid about her being a decent human.”
            This woman is nuts.
            I tried my best to reason with her, however it proved futile… As she sees her own freaking son as sub-human, which is truly appalling. I’m just gonna say this and it’s gonna offend some people, but Idgaf… she doesn’t deserve to be a mother with such a destructive mindset.

          • Gary Ridgway

            Monika would only hump a dead beat bad boy. She has no idea what a real man is.

            She is poisoning her son and greatly increasing the odds of his suicide.

          • Seb

            A bit harsh, but I fear that may be the case.
            What I don’t understand is how she has a son in the first place. In order to have kids, you have to be in a relationship (duh). So, at some point, she must have loved a man. If that’s indeed the case, how the fuck do we explain her contempt and disgust for men? That, I don’t understand.
            She literally sees boys as morally inferior to girls. In other words, girls are the standard, and boys are sub-human without her superior feminine guidance (despite evidence proving otherwise). I’m sure she has good intentions, but in the end, does that matter? Her actions are incredible destructive and she doesn’t even realize it.
            The way she talks about masculinity and men… makes me think of my aunt, who’s a single mother and had a son (because she wanted kids) with a super rich guy, whom she was only with cause she was a gold digger (and he was with her only for sex, cause she was young). After she decided to keep the baby, the guy left her.
            Growing up, my nephew was incredibly aggressive, and damn near uncontrollable. My aunt didn’t know what to do with him, and couldn’t teach him restraint, respect, control and discipline like fathers could. He was an incredibly troublesome child, and why? Because he didn’t have a father. You could never ask him anything about his father, because it was clear he didn’t want to.
            Were it not for the male guidance of his uncles (my father) and other competent men, in his life, he would’ve turned out like shit.
            The result? My nephew obeyed my father (also honestly, my father is an incredibly dominating figure, so everyone’s afraid of him) and did what he was told.
            Still to this day, my nephew, who turned out great considering the circumstances (he’s not aggressive anymore, he’s learned control, has a bio-engineering degree, etc), still has a clear dislike or frustration towards his mother. Not hate, but he clearly distances himself from her, because she fucked up. She was selfish and didn’t really give him what he needed as a child. She also always played the victim, etc.
            And the sad part is, almost every single mother I know, it’s a similar story with boys not growing up to be good men. And I fear… in fact, I’m halfway sure that Monika is also a single mother who refuses to let good men into her son’s life, because they are tyrannical apparently. But again, what she fails to realize is, that’s exactly what’s going to make him tyrannical in the end.
            I hope I’m wrong about the father of her son.

          • Kittie Mew Meow

            You’ve just saved both my sons! Thank you for helping me see this, especially from a male perspective!!

          • Seb

            Sorry if this sounds like a stupid question, but are you serious? I mean, did some random comments really change your attitude?
            In any case, I’m glad if you felt like my opinion has merit.
            Also, I try to not use words like “male/ female perspective”. I just think it’s the right one, regardless of gender.

          • Kittie Mew Meow

            Well, in a sense. I mean, sometimes things we say can have a profound impact on people. It just really makes sense, everything you have said (and I didn’t even check your statistics, you just seem honest) .. take the win mate! Haha

            I suppose I added the “male perspective” because you’re talking about men raising men, chiming in on your own gender; does that make sense?- because male and female perspectives can be/are different. As a mother I hear alot about how a woman is raising her children to be this or that. I feel we all forget it is a joint venture, there is a reason a man and a woman make babies… but I digress.

            Like I said, thank you for the insight.

          • Seb

            The thing is, I think in our current political and social climate, masculinity and men are viewed as bad things. That’s why it’s important to stick up for (good) fathers and be honest about what they genuinely contribute to a child’s upbringing and why his role is necessary. You don’t have to be a man to say or know any of this (your recognition of my comments is all the proof I need)… It’s just that a lot of women nowadays (and a lot of self-loathing men too) have nothing but disdain for men and seem to purposefully ignore reality.
            Parenting is a 2-man job. It’s not supposed to be a single-parent type thing. And I hate deadbeat dads just as much as I hate women who exclude the fathers of their children because they’re selfish. It’s nothing but destructive.
            But the problem is, women have the authority when it comes to the conversation on gender and gender roles. And as they are far less likely to stick up for men, than men are for men, it’s just more likely that a man is going to defend fathers.
            The only example I can think of where I truly believe in a “male” perspective, is when it comes to masculinity.

            The biggest difference between masculinity and femininity is that masculinity is earned, while femininity merely comes with age.
            In the words of Camille Paglia: “A woman simply is, but a man must become.”
            There’s a far bigger difference between a boy and a man, than between a girl and a woman. Women don’t have to do anything really, to obtain their status of “being a woman”.
            For a boy to become a man, he has to behave accordingly, obtain a certain level of success, etc etc.
            The point is, women don’t have the same experience and that’s fine… But then I don’t think they should talk about these things, they clearly don’t understand.

            That’s why I’m glad my voice is appreciated.

          • Monika Kuncová

            So that means that if someone is born male he have to work hard for being a man. Hmmm I am happy that I am not a male. What a hard life and injustice.

          • Seb

            Yes, but I wouldn’t call it an “injustice” or anything. I think on average, men have more to prove than women, but I also think that for most men, this comes quite naturally, so is it truly a “hard life”? I think most men don’t see it that way. Or at least, not by virtue of them being male.
            On an individual level, I don’t think it matters that much… Frankly, I think people in the West have little to no reason to complain, as we’ve never experienced such freedom and wealth in the history of the world. But there are things like fatherlessness that do affect our kids and that’s why I think it’s an important issue.

          • Kittie Mew Meow

            I love your spirit for debate and your well rounded words 🙂 thank you. If you want to dive intothe politics of it all, I think the media have found their new “terrorists”; apparently the big wigs think we need someone to hate, as someone said it just makes us divisive not able to focus on a collective mission of betterment….

            I don’t agree with your veiw of women just being though- we all have to strive to “be” … in my opinion. Especially if you consider motherhood, there are countless women out there who are shunned because they don’t have/want children- they’re looked upon as nothings or more career driven and selfish… it’s a sad world ahaha again I’ve gone off topic!

            Have a good one dudes

          • Seb

            Well yes, a woman, one becomes with age… because fertility comes with age. That’s what separates girls from women. But the difference is, a female doesn’t have to physically or mentally do anything in order to become fertile (because again, it just comes with age). Whereas what defines men (independence, strength, financial status, etc), all has to be worked for and earned.

            I can understand that there’s some pressure on women, for them to have kids and all… but really, in this day and age, and with the rise of (3rd wave) feminism, women’s “responsibilities” have pretty much been obliterated. I acknowledge its existence, but it’s not the same thing as men. Especially when most women want to have kids anyways (and those who don’t, end up regretting it later in life when it’s already too late). Statistically, women are at their happiest when they have kids they can take care of. I don’t have anything against a woman choosing a career over a family. I want people to have a choice, but I’m saying that for the overwhelming majority of women, this isn’t the case. So the “societal pressure” of having kids, is less relevant, because women themselves want kids regardless, so it doesn’t really matter that much in the long run.

            But ultimately, the point is that femininity is defined by what you are (your ability to produce babies). Masculinity is defined by what you do and what you’ve achieved. And that’s a real, and significant difference.

          • Monika Kuncová

            I still struggle to find anything positive for men here. I think that it should not be compulsory for a man to spend his life in work instead of spending more time with his family. I will try my best to avoid my son from such future. I want him to be happy wit his children if he will decide to have them and not being a tool for making money, a pure provider, a machine

          • Seb

            Working more to provide for his family will make him happier than you’ll ever care to realize.
            I’m sorry but with each comment, you just prove how you not only misunderstand men, but damn near try your best not to.
            You’re STILL treating your OWN son as a defective, morally inferior girl. It blows my mind how you refuse to accept the simple reality that your son is not a female. Stop treating him as such. What women define as happiness is completely different from what men define as happiness. For the sake of your son, get that.

          • Monika Kuncová

            Maybe you are right. But it is very hard to comprehend that we could be so different. I see my child as the most important achievement in my life. I am also working in a job, but for me it is less important. I resigned to any major achievements. When I was a child I idealized my career I thought that I will invent something but I do not have intelligence of genius and do not have options to achieve that goal. Time spent with my child is most important for me nowadays.

          • Kittie Mew Meow

            Also, I was coming into the conversation quite frustrated which turned to intrigued 🙂

          • Gary Ridgway

            Correct. Masculinity is no more “incorrect” than femininity. The real problem is that people have lost the core concept of men and women complimenting one another rather than competing with each other.

          • Gary Ridgway

            This is possibly the best post I have ever read.

            Men are not inherently defective, and efforts to turn boys into women will only lead to self-destructive behaviors.

            Thank you for this post.

          • Gary Ridgway

            I worked with a fellow who became ill and was constantly teased by his bitch wife and female co-workers about the “man cold”.

            His “man cold” turned out to be pancreatic cancer and he died a few weeks later.

            Women castigate men whenever men show the slightest weakness, even when men face death.

          • Kittie Mew Meow

            It’s amazing how insight from actual men can really help you see just how broken we’ve become as people. Like Seb said above, we need to compliment each other- I’m adding there needs to be give and take- which falls to responsibility
            Pretty sure you’ve both enlightened me and have helped me gain insight into my own relationship- I now know my husband dude isn’t useless, he is different, he is a man. I can’t explain it as eloquently as you have, so i may seem to miss the mark. Women need men, just as men need women- it creates a balance. But most definitely, young boys need men. Thank you for putting it out there

          • BrettOMC

            I’m glad there are women like you out there. In fact I’ve noticed a lot of women, lately are starting to reject the modern version of feminism because it has moved away from uplifting women and towards turning them into perpetual victims while trying to diminish men. The latter being their primary focus as of late, it seems.

            Their divisive political rantings do more harm to women that anything in my opinion. I honestly believe the men and women are at their best when the find a harmonious balance in the way they interact. Women, of course, should have equal opportunity but they shouldn’t be forced with societal pressures into careers or gender roles in some misguided attempt to create the illusion of equal outcome.

            I think the same goes for men. Men and masculinity have a role in a health society. Other men need to teach boys how to handle that masculinity in direct it in a good direction. Forcing them to be more feminine will not only destroy them but society and women as well. IMHO 🙂

            I’m glad to see women realising this because they are going to be the primary force that puts feminism back in it’s place. Anything men to will only serve to reinforce the stereotype of male aggression and bullying that some radicals want to portray.

          • Kittie Mew Meow

            I think our society has broken alot of people, and also we have all lost our fundamental drivers with the explosion of consumerism. But that’s for a different forum right.

            I wouldn’t say my sons (I have 2) dad is the most hands on father and sometimes I view that as he is just not sure how to be a dad, he lacked that role model so to speak. But how are men suppose to ‘be there ‘ if they’re working, like his father 6 day working week. This plays on our relationships dynamics, I have people telling me he is immature and selfish because he wants to be away from us when he has time off (his father and mother also were busy building houses during his growing periods and then his dad was in the doghouse during his teens for affairs) .. all in all we are both overworked and somehow broken down by it all

          • BrettOMC

            I understand. And I think you’re right. It’s tough to know what the important things are for developing a young boy or man’s sense of self should be when you are working so hard on daily life. In fact it doesn’t give you much time to reflect and consider many deeper aspects to that topic.

            I grew up in the same way. My father was absent for the most part. Even when he was around. My mother did her best but was saddled with taking care of us, on her own. As a result I have a profound , respect for single mothers that struggle through no fault of their own.

            I could have taken two very different paths in life. I was fortunate that the example my mother set for me, guided my conscience and it was out of respect for her that I stayed, pretty much, on the straight and narrow. Having said that, I was desperate for male guidance as a young man. Because, although I stayed out of trouble, I also drifted through life with very little purpose. And to a young man that is terrible place to be. For anyone I believe but especially men. Purpose is where we thrive. It doesn’t matter how hard the path, if we have clear guiding principles to live by and a purpose that serves, not only ourselves but others, we can achieve a more meaningful and fulfilling existence as men. I’m sure it’s pre-programmed into all over us from our tribal ancestral evolution but it’s still very much what we crave, today. As you can see, a man’s traditional role in today’s society is being turned upside down by those seeking to destroy anything traditional and what they call, toxic masculinity.

            It wasn’t until I joined the Canadian Army that I discovered all of those things. Guiding principles that instilled a sense of honourable behaviour for me and towards others, purpose for myself and others and discipline. I know the army isn’t the answer for everyone but my point is that you don’t have to be around all the time. That is pretty much impossible for most people. But young men crave a set of parameters in which to operate. It’s that whole order and chaos principle. Too much of either can be a bad thing. Having a set of guiding principle for life that young men can use to navigate the struggles they will face and a guiding hand as they grow up. This gives them the structure while allowing them the freedom to make their own life choices. I had to learn many of those things on my own, even with the military giving me a good foundation.

            Have you heard of the impact Jordan Peterson has been having on this topic? He released a book about this exact thing called The 12 Rules for Life: An Antidote to Chaos. He said he has literally had tens of thousands of young men say that he has saved them. Let me know if you would like me to find some good links for you but it won’t be hard to miss him on YouTube.

          • Kittie Mew Meow

            I absolutely love Ole Jordo.. and am cramming all those lectures when I find possible. His views fascinate and ignite me 🙂

          • Kittie Mew Meow

            I love Jordo! He speaks to me

          • Seb

            “But how are men suppose to ‘be there ‘ if they’re working, like his father 6 day working week”
            Because men view doing more hours at work as “taking care” of the kids. Perhaps I’m wrong, but I wouldn’t be surprised your husband started working more when the two of you had kids. Statistically, men work more (in terms of hours) than women. But if you look at it more closely, things start to get more interesting. Single, childless women under 30/35 actually earn more and work more than men of the same age and status. It’s only when men have kids, that they start working significantly more hours. It’s as if that is the reason why they work in the first place. This leads to men working more hours than women, on average.
            Doing these extra hours is not selfish. It’s selfless. I don’t know your house-situation, so I’m not making any judgement, but from what I know about men and women personally, from the statistics I’ve seen, I assume your husband works more days FOR you and your kids. Not to get “away” from you.

            I get that it sucks when he’s not around. My “advice” (and take this with a grain of salt, as I have very little experience with long-term relationships for several reasons. I’m no expert by any means) to you is to perhaps talk to him why he works as much as he does. My guess is, it’s for you. But you’ll only know if you ask.

          • Kittie Mew Meow

            Yes, my husband started working more when our kids came along. He had also finished up his apprenticeship therefore had more work. However, this more work wasn’t a financial gain for ‘the family unit’ he likes to buy things- gadgets and gizmos. He does consider it a service, however I’m the one who supports household junk in terms of money.

            We’ve both sacraficed a fair bit, just to be in a partnership and adding children ontop of that we struggle to find ourselves. We’ve also spoken at lengths about traditional work and how it’s draining us (him missing out on alot) it goes back to my somewhat idealistic view of wanting to be happy at the end. It’s unfortunate that it cost money to run away from thig big smoke…

          • Monika Kuncová

            “Many of the men you see that don’t fit this description are broken.”
            No they are not. It is not a man obligation to serve or protect. Men who die on sinking ship because they protect women are not heroes for me. Simply because I have a son. I don’t want him to sacrifice for a woman just because her gender. I know that women have higher biological value because they can have babies and men can’t, so men are considered expendable, but it doesn’t mean that men should sacrifice life.

          • BrettOMC

            I understand that you think you are being equitable by positioning men as victims when they seek to protect women. But you are not. You are attempting to force men and women to not only think like you but also act in accordance to you beliefs. Biology and human evolution is slightly outside your jurisdiction, I’m afraid. And it doesn’t care about your feminist views.

            Another thing to consider is your particular lifestyle. I’m assuming you live in a western country that is stable and adheres to the rule of law. If so, then you are fortunate to be in a place that allows you to think in such narrow terms with little risk of repercussions. Most of the world doesn’t work like that and up until about 100 years ago, no country worked like that. The fact that strong and tough men are responsible for you having, electricity, running water, houses, police protection, fire services, military defence and nearly all infrastructure that keeps you safe and comfortable, not to mention most businesses and technological innovation, seems to be lost on you.

            It is the masculine drive that provides that. And in most cases men do these things for women and family. For you to say that men should not be responsible for that is to deny them the very thing that drives them. You don’t have that right. It’s arrogant and self righteous. If you want to opt of it, then go live in the woods. Maybe you would be much happier although I doubt you would be as comfortable.

            Now imagine a major disaster. Power is out for weeks. Food is dwindling and gangs of thugs are roaming the streets. What then? Would you want you son to be a feminine beta male? Or would the two of you be cowering in you man made houses begging for protection for good strong males? I think we both know the answer to that.

            One problem we have in our society today is most people that think like you are spoiled rotten. You have probably never experienced lawlessness. You’re also naive because you think that if everyone just thought more like females, everything would be alright. There is probably nothing I can do to help you see reason. Some people just need to learn the hard way, unfortunately. But it’s a shame that your narrow thinking could cause your son to be ill prepared for the darker side that life could throw at him. I hope he survives.

          • Gary Ridgway

            Women like you turn boys into murderous monsters.

          • Kittie Mew Meow

            This is totally off base mate. People are actually ‘born’ psychopaths, they aren’t made. Ask any good psychiatrist, they make a living off trying to figure them out.

            I have no issues with a mother or father for that instance trying to teach their young boy emotional intelligence, nor compassion or empathy- these things are totally not gender specific. In one ear I hear men are the problem and then the other is women are. The problem is no one is willing to take responsibility. We are all suffering at the hands of our minds that have been twisted far beyond recognition of what we as human beings are here for. Men in construction work have high suicide rates because of societal pressure to be a fucking millionaire. Women are dying of stress related illness (heart disease,etc) because they eat a morsel of food and should be stick thin and “beautiful” super women. We need to take responsibility for what we have become, seriously. At the end of my life I just hope I can be happy. Consumerism and corporate governments are killing us all.

          • Seb

            I agree with everything you’ve said (Gary Ridgway seems to be bitter towards women), but psycho’s are in some part “made”. They usually have the worst kind of upbringing imaginable. Not always, but it’s definitely a factor. I’m not going to say anything about the correlation with single mothers here, because one, I don’t know the statistics and two, it’s too sensitive an issue to make grand, unspecific claims about it anyways.

            “At the end of my life I just hope I can be happy”
            I struggle with this every single day, if I’m honest. Especially when I see my father, I honestly think he’ll regret his life the day he dies. I don’t want to be like that.

  • Odina

    Oh yes Sarah – the bitching is the worst, and so, so silly. Because of course, as with all things, it’s not “all men” and “all women”. And the fact of being a man or woman is not an excuse for any type of behaviour – you are an adult person in a relationship. If you’re unhappy with the way your partner behaves, it’s on you to raise that with them and sort it out, not passively roll your eyes and harrumph about them being useless by virtue of their gender (this goes both ways – I find it equally cringeworthy when men complain of their wives spending lots of money… like its an inherently female trait). you don’t like something? do something about it, or get over it.

  • Dianne

    Hi, I’ve never felt superior just because I’m a woman. I think there’s a balance like ying and yang, night and day etc. In my relationship with my husband there are things we’re both good at and things we’re both bad at. Luckily together we make a team and help each other through life. It’s all about finding the right partner who is always prepared to put the other first instead of looking for what can be taken from the other. Life can be wonderful when both people in a relationship care more for their partner’s happiness than their own. Giving, not taking, is the key.

  • O’Mafonzie

    I really like this and get it! As long as the genders relieve their hurt feelings by making themselves superior and as long as we focus on the negative instead of the positive in our differences we will have a battle of the sexes to wage. And what a waste of energy that is!

  • Petal Anne

    Couldn’t agree more… well put Sarah

  • Sally

    As another reader commented – being respected on both sides is key. As is not defaulting to one gender to question why something wasn’t done/should be done- my husband threw a hissy fit the other day because his shirts weren’t ironed, and defaulted to it being my fault. Yep.

    And why do people look to the mother when she is going to work and question who is looking after the children?!

    We are really our own worst enemies.

    You are right Sarah, it is up to us to change the approach.

  • Tamara Armstrong

    Great observations and yes there’s a lot of complaining about males spouses (and sons) happening in conversations I too have had with acquaintances, friends and family members. It irks me as well. I grew up with a mother that made it her prerogative to be the best wife and mother she could. She wanted for nothing more and in my eyes that looked like being a door mat to our family. If she ever needed help, she’d ask me before she asked my brother and when I would point out how unfair that was, he would laugh and say “No, she asked you first”. When my parents were married my dad was treated like a king and he was so ungrateful. Her nagging was white noise. He’s now re-married to a proud feminist who bows down to no man and she keeps him on his toes when it comes to domestic chores. I barely recognise him when I now see him in their kitchen after every meal, doing the dishes, packing away the food and wiping the benches. It’s insane to me because this never happened in my childhood. That’s just my step mother communicated to him that she expects from a partner – equal participation in domestic chores regardless of whether or not both parties work full time. Witnessing the roles my parents took on as a child gave me a clear idea of what I did not want for my future and I think that really helped me to see qualities in a potential life partner that would compliment my own desire for equality in the home. I communicated this to anyone I was interested in, and I protected and communicated my independence always. I still do. I’m very fortunate to now be married to a man that often exceeds the 50/50 of everything in our life together. We share the cooking, the cleaning, the parenting but he does all of the groceries, most of the food prep and the clothes washing. I have female friends that can’t believe how often they run into him at the supermarket. He gets our daughter ready for kindy, bed, outings, meals as much as I do. Some of his colleagues can’t believe it when he tells them I’m away for work on weeknights, because they’ve never left their child overnight with their own fathers. I complain far more than he does when I’ve had to cook three nights straight, in fact he rarely complains even if he’s exhausted. He grew up in a household where everyone took on the domestic chores, no matter whether or not they were female. It was just the expectation. He looks after us better than I feel I look after him and he’s as much of a wife to me as I am to him. People laugh when I say that, but I think we all have to share the ‘wife’ role, because traditionally it’s the nurturing, caring and selfless role. But it doesn’t belong solely to women. Men can be responsible and they are when they respect and recognise the needs of the people they love.

  • Anne

    This type of negative attitude is useless. There is a much brighter bigger picture beyond some socks on the floor or what that represents. Women can be myopic too. In any relationship we need to recognise the strengths and weaknesses of each partner to move forward in a supportive way or move on. I am fortunate enough to like as well as love men.

  • Kaci

    It breaks my heart to hear such ill-will against men. I have a dear tender-hearted son. What is he to think and learn from the barrage of put dows against men? Please be kind for my son’s sake.

    • Gary Ridgway

      Your son is learning what modern women really are. Asking for women to be “kind” to your son is a green light for women to destroy him.

      Tell your son to NEVER get married and to make sure a woman isn’t able to trap him financially by “accidental” pregnancy.

      • Screw_Globalism

        Most women are very far from kind towards men , that is mostly reserved for other women.

        • Gary Ridgway

          Women are not kind to each other. Women hate the fuck out of each other.

  • Lynn

    I honestly believe it’s not gender related but more about and individuals personality and role models as a child. If a woman has been role modelled to pick up socks, then she does…and effectively lets the bloke off the hook. If a bloke has had his socks picked up for him, then he leaves them there for his partner – if she choses to pick them up, then she has chosen to let him off the hook. Essentially it’s all about communication of relationship standards and actually asking for what you want (not assuming your partner should know!)

  • Katherine Collette

    What I dislike about this ‘OMG, he’s just hopeless!’ thing
    is that it seems to occur more in relation to men doing what are seen as traditionally‘female’ activities. It’s like, ‘He can’t change a nappy, LOL,’ or, ‘Look how he stacked this dishwasher!’, not ‘He’s terrible at working out the family’s long term financial plan,’ (or whatever). So we end up with women being better or quicker at picking up socks, which means they pick up all the socks, which means they don’t get time to do more interesting, stuff that requires actual thought.

    • Gary Ridgway

      Bullshit. Men do the most dangerous jobs, are injured/killed more often, and die much earlier in life than women; but somehow all we sacrifice for women is never appreciated.

  • Kate

    Every time I feel the urge to complain about “useless men” I think about the 2 little males I am raising and resolve to try and raise them to be less “useless” than my generation of men were raised …
    I honestly believe males and females simply have a different belief of what needs to be done every day. Of what is important. I guess on the whole it’s not a bad thing to not stress that socks are left in the middle of the bedroom floor (for example 😉 )

    • Gary Ridgway

      “Worthless” men are pussified males who have no sense of what it is to be a man. A feminist female CANNOT teach boys to be men, anymore than masculine man could teach girls to be ardent feminist.

    • Gary Ridgway

      Also, “worthless” men of your generation were almost all raised by “single moms” who completely failed to impart any critical masculine skills to boys.

      You want boys to be better men? Stop chasing away good fathers or making babies with deadbeats.

      When it comes to family women have ALL of the power.

      • Kittie Mew Meow

        Poverty is a huge underlying cause there mate, not just critical masculine skills. Single mothers can and do help young boys find a stable male figure, be it granddad or uncle.

        Why not say dudes stop being deadbeats?

  • Louise

    My daughter once said to me that men can see far because their role was to be hunters, women see detail because their role was to gather. That thought opened my mind, had me perceiving the dropped socks in a different way. When I tried it on this different way of perceiving my husband and three sons I allowed them a voice and there were things they saw that were not present for me with my detail focussed brain. This discussion is long overdue, Sarah and I thank you for it.
    I recently heard a respected feminist on the radio saying that the way we say things in the gender discussion is critically important. She said we won’t have equality until we speak it that way. We speak of ‘working mothers’ and generate a picture of the juggling involved. But, she asked, until we speak of ‘working parents’ we exclude the amount of juggling that fathers often have to do and we shut them out from the picture and from the acknowledgement. Their efforts go unrecognised. Until we are inclusive in the way we speak there will be no equality for anyone.

  • Karen

    This was awesome. The comments were just as good, and not too mean spirited or hateful like most I see see on the Internet. It really helped me to see a different perspective. I have found myself begrudging ‘men’ in a general way too because, along with myself, women have been the brunt of much victimization, discrimination, exploitation and downright abuse from men, which is common in many cultures even today. I do think it makes us ‘ feel better’ to criticize them ‘as men’, as below us somehow. Women can be awfully demanding and selfish too, it took me a lifetime to see. And humanly speaking, we as women, may very well would have mistreated them if given half a chance. (Although, I have heard many men criticizing women too.)
    When you give birth to a beautiful son and he grows up to be a loving man, although imperfect, you have a different perspective.
    In my experience of most women has been that most of the ones I’ve known have been amazing wonderful nurturing creatures.
    I stay away from the others. Men too.
    I think it’s great to open a discussion like this to see different perspectives and swallow our pride and egos (on both sides) and expand our consciousness for a better world in the future and like one of the commenters said, “both people in the relationship give and take, and support each other”. The war has to stop somewhere, why not with the gatherers? The only thing we need to prove is that we CAN do better! Thank you everyone!

    • Seb

      “women have been the brunt of much victimization, discrimination, exploitation and downright abuse from men”
      Yeah, but the thing is… Men face categorically more violence and abuse than women. So each and every time “violence” is turned into a “female” issue (as you did just now), what you’re really saying is, men are irrelevant.
      Simply put, men are the overwhelming majority of harassment, assault, homicide, abuse victims… yet it’s only when women are the victims that society cares. How do you think that makes men feel? It makes them feel subhuman. And even worse, sometimes I feel like that’s how some women want us to feel. Like irredeemable trash.

      Men’s issues are never discussed because most women (and especially feminist women at that) view the problems faced by men as unimportant because they view men as “privileged”. That is why there are things like the missing and murdered aboriginal women hysteria, while 3/4 of murdered aboriginals are actually male according to RCMP stats. That’s why there was a bring back our girls campaign all over the media for the Nigerian students, while everyone ignored the fact that every single male student was slaughtered at that school, as well as in the surrounding schools, as is been happening for YEARS. That’s why when Elliot Rodger killed 4 men and 2 women, it was viewed as a crime against women, leading to the creation of the #yesallwomen hashtag. That is why when the Canadian Centre for Men and Families was created in Toronto it was viewed as controversial and a breeding ground for sexism against women by the mainstream media and feminists for daring to be male-centric.

      Still to this day, the bring back our girls campaign makes me cry. EVERY single boy, down to the last one, in that school was massacred. They were burned alive and all the girls were initially set free and sent home. Yet NO ONE cared. It’s only when they started targeting girls that people took it seriously. Now again, I shed a tear just because of how sad this is. Why is it we don’t even care about young kids, because they are male? This deeply saddens and pains me. Worst of all, it’s only growing worse by the day. It seems every day, men are attacked more and more for being men. As someone with 2 STEM degrees myself, I’m constantly told my profession (engineering and technology) is patriarchal and oppressive to women, as if I’m the cause of it. I’m just so sick of all the anti-male rhetoric.

      • Kittie Mew Meow

        I’m pretty sure the bring back the girls campaign (or whatever it was called) was highly televised- we can’t always really know what’s going on. I’m positive that people cared and mourned the slain boys and I’m also positive they didn’t want the girls murdered either- that’s why there was such a public outcry. What an atrocity!

        • Seb

          I’m sorry to tell you but the liberal elite only started to care when girls were targeted… If it were just a “mere accident” that they “forgot” about the men… how do you explain them “forgetting” about every single boy being slaughtered at several schools for YEARS.
          The fact is that people don’t care even remotely the same if you’re a boy. This is the universal truth about men, we are expendable. Women are not. “Women and children first”, doesn’t that ring a bell? I’m not blaming women for this at all. Men are just as much to blame… heck, I am to blame as I would be the first to save a girl over a boy if I had to choose (just out of pure instinct I’m guessing) I don’t have kids, but should I have a daughter, I’m sure I would treat her far better than I would a son. This is due to evolutionary needs. One man can impregnate thousands of women, so his sexual value is pretty much non-existent. However, one women cannot produce a thousand babies, so her contributions are more special, thus they are more important. Add to that fact that women are also physically weaker, and the more protected sex, and the end result is, girls are valued immensely, and sometimes at the expense of boys.

          We have things like raped teenage boys by female teachers… and these female rapists get away with it and get to claim child support from that boy. This is the level of insane we’re talking about. The system doesn’t give a shit about men. There are more than 180 male shelters for every female shelter. The female shelters also get governmental support and funding, whilst the men get nothing. At the end of the week, women can go to social workers and expect to be given good, clothing, money and accommodation. What do men get? Nothing (despite the fact that men are the majority of the homeless). Just look at the amount of funding breast/ overy cancer get over male cancers? Despite similar numbers of victims btw.

          The truth is, society wouldn’t even piss on men if they were on fire. Male lives don’t matter. When men make up 95% of the incarcerated, people don’t care. But when women’s incarceration increased several fold, this caused a massive public outcry.
          Again, women Elliot Rodger killed 4 men and 2 women… this was viewed as a crime against women.

          Can you really, honestly say that it’s just a “mere accident” that the male victims were not reported? That people care just as much about boys? No. Not at all.
          The bring back our girls campaign is the worst offender of them all. I still cannot believe how boys are given zero empathy and just let them be slaughtered and no one cares because they’re boys. But when one girl was targeted, everyone was outraged and the mainstream media was all over it.
          Do you know why they started targeting girls? Because they had been targeting boys for YEARS and didn’t get what they want: attention. That’s why they changed their targets, because they knew killing girls would get people uproared. So long as these innocent kids were male, people couldn’t care less. Fuck, this pains and angers me so damn much.

          • Monika Kuncová

            I agree with you totally. I am sad but all that you mentioned is pure truth. Men are expendable gender and it is one of the reasons why I am afraid as a mother of a boy. He has less value just because his genitals. Women and children first is insane, it should be parents with children first. The rest try your luck…

          • Seb

            I get that wanting to have a girl as your second child for diversity purposes is normal. But sex selection just because you wouldn’t want a second boy? That’s a bit extreme, not to mention illegal if I’m not mistaken.
            But still, if you want your son to be valued just as much as girls, stop with undermining his masculinity. This is so counter-intuitive. Start by treating him as an equal yourself, because by your own admission, you don’t (or didn’t). Be the change you advocate for.

          • Monika Kuncová

            It is legal in some countries. It doesn’t matter how masculine he will be, it will not change the fact that as a man he will be second class citizen. It is not wise to want boys in this age in west. Having a girl means that she will have easier life. And especially she can have children on her own, she won’t need a partner, where man will always need one. And as we all know partners are unreliable, people usually break up after few years, because they find someone better, more sexy etc… It is an advantage to be able to have a child as single mother and not rely on anybody else, of course if you have a lot of money and do not need to work. This is luxury that men don’t have, they can’t bring life themselves.

          • Monika Kuncová

            It doesn’t matter how masculine he will be, it will not change the fact that as a man he will be second class citizen. Society consider male expandable, a tool, a war weapon in hands of more powerfull alfa males who have no compassion and are willing to kill others for their goals. Men are fools if they find any proud in serving other men(i.e. wars).
            It is not wise to want boys in this age in west. Having a girl means that she will have easier life. She will be protected by men, they will serve her and she will have unlimited choices of career. And especially she can have children on her own, she won’t need a partner, where man will always need one. And as we all know partners are unreliable, people usually break up after few years, because they find someone better, more sexy etc…and then fight custody disputes etc. It is an advantage to be able to have a child as single mother and not rely on anybody else, of course if you have a lot of money and do not need to work. This is luxury that men don’t have, they can’t bring life themselves. It is a biological injustice and curse of all men :/.
            Btw I myself can’t have children without a surrogate mother so I know very well how hard it is to not be able to conceive without the help of a woman. My position is similar to a male because he also can’t bring life by himself. I sometimes feel as subhuman, useless and I guess that it is probably the way how some men feel but they never talk about it.

  • Mary-Jane Smyth

    Thank you for this post, I think it’s very helpful.

  • Claudia

    Yes but there are cases where the man is a compleat moron. Wanting to throw away a new iderdown dovet to purchase a man made one. Not taking clothes off when you work out so you sweat and then not washing. Washing before you go out on your bike and get sweaty not after. Having medical problems and picking only the aspects he wants to stick to and avoiding the rest eg not eating sugar but still eating carbs. Replacing good quality wool carpets with cheap man made crap. Buying the children cheep beds that the spring pock out while he has a expensive comfortable matress. Watching war and cowboy films over christmas with the family. Oh I could go on trust me ! Some men sadly are selfish morons others are just missunderstood.

    • Gary Ridgway

      Fortunately, all women are gifts from God **sarcasm**

  • Karen

    It’s a conundrum Claudia, but we’re not talking so much about the stark differences between moron and misunderstood as expecting men to be as adept at things such as planning a birthday party, (which I’m terrible at b/c I don’t enjoy it, nor like the pressure), as we are, as one example. Commenters sited men don’t even see the socks! ( not exactly sure about that? ), and what roles were customary in homes we grew up in, etc…many men really ‘can be’ excruciatingly frustrating at times, I experience it all the time, but that is more about just living with someone, anyone, male or female too. Like Samantha said, “it all comes down to be respected on both sides” and like Dianne said in her comment “when both partners care more for their partners happiness than their own. Giving, not taking is the key” and the whole conundudrum is with Sally’s comment, ” and why do people look to the mother when she is going to work, and ask who is looking after the children!?” The fact is, we women do have different brains than men. We can multi-task and they are susceptible to only being able to do one thing at a time. Wherein, the point comes full-circle. We, as women need to evolve from our superiority stance too, and be aware of our own inadequacies, not just theirs, and maybe one day, we will co-exist in a harmonious flow. Great discussion!

    • Gary Ridgway

      Men can’t multi tasking?
      Tell that to air traffic controllers, soldiers in combat, police officers, firemen, CEO’s, et. all.

    • terrizosia

      I’m a woman and I am a terrible multi tasker. That’s a generalization. I have to have quiet and focus on doing one thing at a time.

      • Seb

        That’s because multi-tasking is humanly impossible, regardless of gender. The human brain can only focus on one thing at a time. Many stereotypes have at least some basis in reality, for example, women are indeed more emotional (they have higher levels of neuroticism) or men have better spatial abilities, etc. But the “multi-tasking” one, is a made up thing with absolutely no basis in reality.

        • Monika Kuncová

          I agree, true parallel multitasking is really impossible. If someone is “multitasking” it means doing one well trained and easy activity and second non-trivial. However when there occurs serious problem in non-trivial task, you will loose control of the trivial task. So you gonna probably do a hole in a dress :). Another nice example is driving a vehicle a having a phone call…

          • Seb

            Yes, that’s a good example. The point is, when human beings are doing two different things at a time, one must necessarily be a “background” task. And said task must be a regular one, because without practice and repetition, this also is barely even possible.
            However, the argument is that neither gender is better at “background”-multitasking (or however you’d like to define it) than the other.
            I’m perfectly willing to admit women, on average, are superior to men in certain areas. But this simply is not one of them.

    • Seb

      Women being able to multi-task is a demonstrably false claim. It’s humanly impossible, regardless of gender. Human brains can, biologically and neurotically speaking, NOT multi-task. It can’t be done and has been proven beyond extreme scrutiny.
      Women are better than men at certain cognitive tasks. Memory, facial recognition, emotional intelligence, etc. But “multi-tasking” is NOT one of them.

  • Wendy Smith

    I believe no-one is perfect. And that there is something great about every single one of us. We just need to spend more time focussing on each person’s greatness. We do have a choice.

  • Anonymous age 72

    Camille Paglia who admits to being a feminist, said if it weren’t for men, women would be living in caves, wearing rabbit skins. Sounds right to me, but I am not 100% sure about the rabbit skins.

    Anyone who says men are useless is as disturbed as anyone who says women are useless.

    • Gary Ridgway

      Agreed. Men and women were put on this Earth to compliment one another, not compete with each other.

  • MitchGiz Wilkinson

    Women stay home and raise children, nurture for school and take care of family members when I’ll. But men build houses roads, planes, ships, trains, space crafts, computers, televisions, tablets phones, video game systems, sport entertainment, fresh water systems and there are also token men who take care of people and nurture. But primarily women are for child birth.

  • Therapeuticreality

    Hi Sarah,

    As probably… Because I can’t tell given the names, the only male commenter thus far, here is my 2 cents.

    Your view on the matter is very narrow. Centred around a very American upper middle class concerns… If they can even be called that. I feel you may be expending effort in trying to right a wrong which doesn’t exist. Why does this even bother you? Is there not greater aspirations in life? Or if your relationship the only defining thing in your life? Or relationships in general are the only defining meaning in your life? If so, maybe re-evaluate.

    What is with this “I think we all need to try harder”. Your generalisations add nothing to the conversation. If this conversation is even worth having.

    Why are people so hung up on small issues like, is my man going to pick up the socks. I know it was analogy, but as an analogy it’s sorely lacking in impact if it were meant for the greater gender topic, which I think modern day feminists (I mean those who think equality means superiority) have effectively stunted the movement.

    I think firstly he isn’t helpless, he survived without you before. Second your energies could be better spent becoming the best possible version of yourself (not spent on this article). I find women who talk about relationships too much, lack ambition and the drive to become something truly magnificent. Why not both of you leave the sock there, if it really bothers you, don’t be together, or find a compromise that will not stunt either persons growth. Yours mostly by wasting your energy trying to fix an none existent issue, and yours again because you were so bothered by the sock you missed an opportunity to become someone better.

    • Gary Ridgway

      BINGO!!!!

  • Gary Ridgway

    It kills me that women sit in their gender studies classes bitching about how worthless men are, when:

    -The building they are sitting in was designed by men, built by men, maintained by men.
    -The HVAC (that’s heating and cooling ladies) was designed, installed, and maintained by men.
    -The electric power to the building and their homes is generated by men, in plants designed, built, and maintained by men 24/7/365.
    -The police protecting these women are overwhelmingly men.
    -The cars/busses that brought these women to class were designed, built, maintained by men.
    -I could go on and on…..but I won’t, since “men are worthless”.

    For men to get women to drop this feminist bullshit, it would only take men saying “fix it yourself”…..that would be “equality”.

    • Gary Ridgway

      **crickets chirping**…..that’s what I thought.

  • Gary Ridgway

    The women posting here are really dilusional. How long do you think you would survive in a world without men?

    Men create, build, install, maintain, repair, protect, EVERYTHING.

    You women need to realize how often you ask a man for help, with your car, computer, home, work, law enforcement, fire department, public works, electrical generation, water treatment, etc., Etc….

    • Monika Kuncová

      Not many times. I can repair most of things myself. I don’t need a man for this.

      • Seb

        Just for fun. You wanna use your small heating unit (220-230V, 10A). At the same time, you’re watching TV, whilst ironing. How do you connect these 3 devices on the same 3000 Watt power line? Parallel, or in series?
        What’s going to happen in either case? And if something were to happen, how would or could it be prevented?

        • Monika Kuncová

          Lets assume we have 230V voltage, TV is approx 100W and iron 2kW. Heating unit P=230×10=2.3kW. If I will connect all of them in parallel(which is only way possible without modifying circuit) power line will be probably overloaded if my iron and heating unit will be heating too long simultaneously causing circuit breaker to open circuit and disconnect all appliances from power. Solution is use more phases power line or don’t use iron and heating at the same time.
          Connecting in series is nonsence since modern TV is using switching power supply and will cause weird behavior. In case without TV, the power will distribute berween heating unit and iron. But the power of both appliances would be low.

          • Seb

            That’s awesome, you got everything right. Including the “series” bullshit.

          • Seb

            It’s cool that you know this (though it’s not exactly rocket science), but still… I doubt that many women know any of this. Frankly, I doubt they even know what power means.

          • Monika Kuncová

            Well I have a degree in electrical engineering so really these are the things I should know. I think people should know how the world around works. If I use something, I am always interested how it works, in major principles. I don’t want to be just user. Unfortunately not many people(not just women) are interested and they are only users. It is truth that women aren’t for some reason interested in technical things. I think that part of the reason is upbringing and traditional view of this field as masculine. And also men find pride in showing women how skilled they are and frankly it is easy to just ask men for repair/do technical things and have a free time. Why should I do it, if men will do it for me without hesitation :).

          • Seb

            I assumed you had that degree. I’ve a masters in electrical engineering too (with a bachelor’s in energy. It’s a unique kind of program where you do 2 degrees in 5 years, instead of 2 in 7 to 8 years, which is the standard in my country for a master’s and bachelor’s degree).
            I kind of projected mine unto you, but I didn’t want to make that assumption.

            That being said, as an engineer yourself, surely you must realize that this field is dominated by men. And you might be the exception to the rule and you may not need a man to do it for you, which is great… but the fact is, should there be no more men, 95% of electrical engineers would disappear.

            If it’s perfectly fine, if not applauded, to say that women are needed and better than men at certain things, then why is it such a travesty when we acknowledge men’s skills and superiority? Why is that suddenly “”””sexist””””?
            You say that STEM (engineering) is male dominated because of “upbringing” and “male roles”. One might indeed think this is the case. But the evidence doesn’t support that at all.
            In fact, the evidence proves the exact opposite, which is:
            The more women are able to do what they want, the more freedom women have, the less you tell them what to do, etc… The more likely women are going to choose stereo-typically “female” jobs like nursing, psychology, etc.
            The same is true for men. The less boundaries, and the more equal the society, the more likely men are going to choose “male” jobs like STEM fields.

            In other words, gender balance is inversely proportional with freedom. Engineering has actually become MORE male dominated in the most feminist, most gender equal countries on Earth, compared to 50 years ago. Meaning: the percentage of female engineers has gone down!
            This proves, that it’s not “socialized” behavior. It’s biologically predisposed behavior. Which is not at all surprising considering the sex differences in male/ female cognitive abilities.

            There’s a great documentary on YouTube called, “The Gender Equality Paradox”, which basically addressed this issue, and proves identitarian ideologues wrong, with science!

          • Gary Ridgway

            Nice cut and paste….. Have you actually ran new circujts, changed out an electrical panel, pulled wire, patched drywall after the job?? Anyone can read wikipedia.

          • Gary Ridgway

            Using more phases of power is not an option, you will not have 3 phase in residential units….how about plugging things into different circuits so they are not overloaded??? This is the critical difference between theory and practice.

          • Seb

            “how about plugging things into different circuits so they are not overloaded???”
            I’m pretty sure that’s what she meant anyways. That’s how I interpreted her answer at least. Cause it’s what I would do.
            That said, it was a hypothetical question. She’s allowed to give a hypothetical solution.
            Point is, my question was ridiculously easy, yes. But to someone who knows nothing about this stuff, it’s an impossible question to answer. I wanted her to say a couple things: series is not an option, with all 3 devices, the power line is overloaded (and why), and how the prevent it. She didn’t say the last thing, but still. I’m convinced.

            You can’t just “copy paste” wiki, because she needs to know what to look for in the first place. I don’t think that women as a whole, or even “a significant minority” know any of this. And I do know that without men, none of these technological applications would exist. But she’s obviously an exception to the rule. Not saying she’s a genius, as I have no way of knowing. But she’s proved herself that she at least knows her stuff.

          • Gary Ridgway

            Agreeing with her on the internet will not help you get laid, sport.

          • Seb

            I’m not “agreeing” with her. I’m saying she proved herself as being knowledgeable concerning a simple technical question. If you read my other comments here, you would know that I do not agree with her perspective on masculinity. Like, at all.
            I don’t know what it is with you, seems to me you’re very bitter if you can’t accept the fact that there are some women who are the exception to the rule. It’s like you can’t bear the thought of a woman having some technical skill. Get over it.

        • Kittie Mew Meow

          I just like to point out that we really don’t need to “prove” ourselves to anyone but ourselves. If there weren’t extreme gender bias in those kinds of subjects/trades back in the day more women would know a lot more.
          It’s 2018 and everyday a girl is getting an apprenticeship in a trade.

          With your line of logic, imagine the choas that would ensue if women didn’t exsit..

          :crickets chirping:

          We wouldn’t exist, at all. It takes 2 and your argument here is quite lame. We need balance, we need responsibility.

          • Seb

            You didn’t understand at all the point I was making.
            First of all, gender bias factually has nothing to do as to why there’s still a gender imbalance to this day in engineering. This is proved by actual research, that women – the freer and more liberated they are – the more likely they choose jobs that are stereo-typically “female” (such as nursing). In other words, the amount of female engineers in the most gender equal countries, has actually gone down quite significantly, and any push for women to choose STEM jobs proves to be futile, as women simply don’t want those kinds of jobs.

            People say this is due to gender bias and upbringing… If that is the case, then why do women dominate psychology (70-80%) when this field used to be exclusively male back in the day? Explain why women dominate biological fields, when these were predominately male back in the day?

            The fact that engineering and tech is still largely male, has very little, if nothing to do with “historic gender imbalance”. There’s no evidence to support that. In fact, baby boys react more profoundly to “things” such as toys, objects, etc, whereas baby girls react more to faces and human beings. I’m talking about newborn babies of a couple days old, so “upbringing” literally cannot be a factor.

            This proves that there are biological, neurological differences between men and women. And those differences make them more predisposed to certain kind of jobs.
            And if we’re looking at the data, we can safely conclude that women will NEVER be a big part of engineers… Not because they’re not capable… But because they simply do not care (I reckon engineering is something that wouldn’t interest you at all, right?).

            I say this as someone with 2 STEM degrees. One in engineering, one in energytechnology. And we do nothing but praise women, uphold women, treat them better, give them more opportunities, hire them over men by law (women have a 2:1 hiring preference over men), give young female engineers more pay for similar or less work, have quota’s and affirmative action, etc.
            So I really don’t believe at all, considering our biology and our social behavior towards female engineers, that the reason women aren’t engineers is because of some kind of “oppression” or because of historic imbalance, because these things don’t add up.

            And NONE of this was to say that “men are better than women”… or “men are more useful than women” or some stupid shit like that.
            It was to prove that men are ALSO useful (looking at the title of this article). Something that women especially simply don’t seem to want to admit. And this does piss me off, when these women whine about men and say they suck, whilst they are using the internet, in their warm house, on their computer, with their HVAC, and their nice TV, with their meal in the microwave, using a pain killer for some headache, etc etc and ignoring that ALL of these things were invented and created by men.

          • Kittie Mew Meow

            Actually, I’m quite interested in engineering, design, information technology, physics and simply the way the world works. I however never embarked on the journey to discover any of those interests because I never felt intelligent enough.

          • Seb

            No offence… But a lot of people say this… and the very same people also say how they “hate mathematics”. How “algebra is boring”. How quantum mechanics “is overcomplicated”.

            Everyone loves science when they don’t “have to” understand the theory behind it. There’s a difference between being amazed at the world (which I’m sure you are, as everyone is) and actually dedicating your time to understanding it.

            If you actually like solving mathematical equations, if you think derivatives and triple integrals of certain functions is interesting or in short, if you like complex and advanced mathematics, then I believe you have a genuine interest in science and engineering (mathematics in the language through which science expresses itself. Understanding mathematics is step one of being a good engineer. You cannot take interest in engineering, without being interested in mathematics).

            But if you’re like most people, and just think “wow, this new gadget is really cool” (which is absolutely fine btw, and there’s NOTHING wrong with that), but nevertheless yawned during elementary class back when you were 10 years old, at the mere sight of simple mathematics (again, which is completely fine), then I’m afraid your “interest” isn’t that profound.

            It’s like all it takes nowadays is liking “I fucking love science” on facebook, and this gives one some credibility when it comes to one’s supposed interest in science (not referring to you specifically). Ignoring the fact that these types of pages reek of pseudo-science, and are usually liked and run by people with no scientific backgrounds.

            I know I come across as a bit arrogant here, but I just have a standard when it comes to this type of stuff.
            It’s like someone saying “I really love music, I’m super passionate about it”, without even knowing what a clarinet sounds like.

          • Seb

            I hope I didn’t come across as a dick with that last comment, I’m not judging or accusing you. I just take what you’re saying with a grain of salt, because I’ve heard the same thing several times before.
            And as for “feeling intelligent enough”… well, I’m not going to lie and say that everyone has the intellectual capability to pursue engineering. But at the same time, it’s also not anywhere near as difficult as some think it to be. So long as you have a solid background in maths, then you should be fine. There was never a time at my engineering Uni when I thought it was too difficult for me, and I’m by no means the smartest man (or woman) in the room. It does however, take a lot of hard work to get there and earn your degree.

          • Kittie Mew Meow

            Yeah, maths and I don’t date :p

      • Gary Ridgway

        You are kidding yourself. Have you ever built an addition to a home, changed a head gasket, wired a new electrical panel, etc? Changing a light bulb does not constitute “fixing” something.

        • Monika Kuncová

          No I am not kidding, I can do anything if I want to. It is all just about learning. Only thing I can’t do are hardcore construction works.

          • Gary Ridgway

            Fair enough, I appreciate your Moxy. I wish most women would at least recognize the massive contributions men make and they hazard they endure.

          • Monika Kuncová

            And yes I was building digital circuits as my job so I know what I am doing and I am not copy pasting my knowledge from wikipedia…

          • Gary Ridgway

            You still suck as a mother.

  • Eric Tucker

    I’m just going to stay in my happy little man cave. Play my video games. Make my money. Pay my bills and stay single

    Its more peaceful this way. I feel where you’re coming from. But honestly.. I tossed the towel in some time ago. Not because I’m incapable of finding a decent woman.

    I think I’m just tired of the back and forth crap. So when shit gets stressful… Opt out and focus on survival.

    • terrizosia

      I agree, it’s vice versa. The stress is not worth it. I had forgotten what it’s like to live with a man and the daily power trips. Too much for me.

  • DrySkiier

    This article seems to distill men’s contribution to society to whether they pick up their socks or take kids to a birthday party.

    Everything that women use, every piece of technology, infrastructure, every scientific discovery was created and most likely installed and maintained by a man. When women need a phone fixed, or plumbing performed, or landscaping performed to take a guess who shows up? That is right a man. In fact, when was the last time someone a woman fixed something technical for you? Women, how did that furniture end up in your house? Did you and your girlfriends lift that sofa yourself? Riiiiight…

    Without women, men would not be here (have to be born of course and be raised where women put in disproportionately more work than men without a doubt), but without men, women would not have automobiles and would be living in teepees. The number of women who have constructed housing in the world is close to the number zero. Anytime I have done anything requiring anything physically exerting, I have noticed women tapping out to make lemonade. Yes, that house you live in was also made by a man. The wood for the beams, cut by a man. Do we see a pattern here ladies? Are you interested in driving a forklift in the lumberyard? No, well someone has to do it.

    Women show up after the house is complete to hang some curtains and buy a duvet cover and think that was the primary value-add. It wasn’t. It was laying the conduit, building walls and putting the roof on top. Anyone can go to Bed Bath and Beyond and gets some pillows. And talking about your value is your “fantastic sense of style” is also not an objective value add. Style is subjective. I have yet to meet a women who did not think she had an absolutely fantastic sense of style.

    Feminism exists because of technological progress. Try saying something like “a woman can do anything a man can do back in 1870.” After failing to saddle a horse, being unable to lift bales of hay and disliking the heat in the blacksmith shop, women would stop the equality talk pronto. The first nation to field an all-female military will be the first country to be invaded and have all their stuff taken. It is a good thing that the Amazonian island of Themyscira was hidden because with an all female military, it was just a big honey pot.

    Finally, I don’t see how this can be contradicted. Please feel free to point out all the women pouring concrete, mining, maintaining power systems, working in automotive repair, and inventing new chemical compounds. I spoke to a woman recently who did not know that a GPS relied upon satellites. I asked her how she thought the GPS knew where the car was; she said she never thought about it. It took her a year to figure out she purchased a car that was a turbo. This is an anecdote, but it is representative of other experiences I have had with women. Technical expertise is not expected from women.

    Women are so disconnected from these things that they rely upon for their standard of living that they are essentially invisible to them (not to all, but to most women). But that does not mean that it does not exist. It just means that it has been set up and taken care of for you.

    Men’s contribution to society is a lot bigger than picking up socks or setting up birthday parties for kids. Also, we don’t exist merely to buy women Hallmark Cards and do the amount of housework that meets your expectations. It seems as if women are do a very good job of completely overlooking all the things I have mentioned that are the basis for the female standard of living.

  • MGTOW The Smart Way

    Well unfortunately it is most of the women today that are so very worthless and clueless altogether now since they are so very busy these days sleeping around with different men all the time, especially since most women now like to party and get real wasted with their girlfriends every chance they get. The great majority of these very pathetic loser women just need a variety of different men to please them since they just can’t commit to only one man anymore to begin with. So how in the world would these women be able to settle down since they are so very wild today? Very impossible i would certainly say since they don’t know what real commitment is in the first place. It is very disgusting the kind of women that are everywhere now that have caused this problem in the first place to begin with. And they really just don’t have any respect for most of us good men anymore nowadays, especially when we will try to start a normal conversation with one of these very pathetic morons since they will be very nasty to us and walk away. They have the worst manners too since i can really see that most of the women today are just very mentally disturbed which makes it very dangerous for many of us men really looking for a relationship now unfortunately. And for the women that have their careers now are the worst ones of all since they really believe that they really are all that which they really are a real joke altogether too. And they will usually go with men that are rich since they really are nothing but users and losers anyway which tells the whole true story right there. Enough of the real truth which has been said.

  • Gary Ridgway

    Fair enough, you are an uber-tiny minor of women.

  • Clive de Silva

    What a load of codswallop. There’s good women and there’s bad women. Just like there’s good men and bad men.